Between 2009 and 2014, Sir John Sawers was known as “C” – the head of MI6.
Following the collapse of the Bashar al Assad regime in Syria, he spoke to Sunday Morning with Trevor Phillips about the situation in the country, and what the next steps will be.
In less than a fortnight, the rebel group Hayat Tahrir al Sham (HTS) has managed to overturn a regime that has held power for more than 50 years.
Syria latest: Follow as Assad flees after rebellion
Sir John lived in Syria in the 1980s and said he saw the oppression from the Assad regime “with my own eyes”.
Will there be a peaceful transfer of power?
“It’s encouraging, I think, that the outgoing prime minister has stayed behind to have some form of orderly transition of power,” Sir John said.
Rebels do not look to be “seeking vengeance” on any groups, he added – although there will be “some accounting” for the “terrible brutality” of the Assad regime. “There’s going to be some settling of scores at some point.”
The Assad regime only represented a “15% minority sect” of the nation, he said.
“A hard task lies ahead now to try to pull the country together.”
There are no traditions of democracy, but rather armed groups instead of political groups and units, he said.
“I think the Turks will play a crucial role in trying to bring these various groupings together to form a single, coherent, new regime.”
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The fall of Assad creates a security vacuum
Will the collapse have been a surprise to the UK and its intelligence services?
“I think it was a surprise to everyone – it probably came as a surprise to [HTS],” Sir John said. “I don’t think they expected to go so far, so fast.
“I think we’re all surprised at how the regime forces have just completely collapsed – even those most loyal to the regime and closest to the regime.
“So, yes, it is a surprise. It’s not a failure of intelligence. It’s a surprise to everyone.”
